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Quote:The
American prison complex at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba has become an international symbol of injustice and should be closed, the Attorney General, Lord
Goldsmith, says.
His remarks - which risk straining the Labour Government's relationship with Washington - went beyond anything said by Tony
Blair. The Prime Minister has described Guantanamo many times as an "anomaly" but almost always adds that its creation is the fault of the terrorists
who committed the 11 September atrocities.
"The existence of Guantanamo Bay remains unacceptable," Lord Goldsmith said yesterday. "It is time,
in my view, that it should close. Not only would it, in my personal opinion, be right to close Guantanamo as a matter of principle, I believe it would also
help to remove what has become a symbol to many - right or wrong - of injustice. The historic tradition of the United States as a beacon of freedom, liberty
and of justice deserves the removal of this symbol."
The Attorney General's remarks - in a detailed and carefully written speech on international
terrorism - is the most authoritative call yet from a British politician for the civil rights of the 500 Guantanamo detainees to be restored. Two other
ministers - the Northern Ireland Secretary, Peter Hain, and the Foreign Office minister Kim Howells - have also said that Guantanamo should close, but
only when asked direct questions.
Speaking last night to the Royal United Services Institute, Lord Goldsmith also said that some of the steps taken
by the Government to counter terrorism had been "very controversial". They included introducing control orders restricting the movement of suspects who
cannot be brought to trial because of insufficient evidence. Lord Goldsmith denied this is a form of house
arrest.
Full Story
What do you think? Is torture EVER
acceptable? Might torture be justified in certain extreme situations? Suppose that someone has kidnapped a little boy and buried him alive and the
perpetrator has admitted to doing it but refuses to tell where the child is buried. Could it be acceptable to torture the perpetrator in an effort to force him to
reveal the location of the child and thereby save his life?
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I'd like
to wait a little bit before givnin my opinion on this, FW. My intent here isn't to convince anyone of anything but just to try to get people to
think.
Papa
Im
not really sure if they should close it becuase its historical but if is causing terrorism they should colse it i think i need to here more of what they say
personally
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Tell ya
what, FW, I WILL say this much. No, I do not feel that official torture (i.e. torture practiced by a government) is acceptable under ANY circumstances.
I'll go into detail later. I want people to go through the process of thinking this out and then I'll explain my answer.
Papa
SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS LOCK AND HERES A LITTLE SOMETHING I FOUND ONLINE
The Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, has called for
the closure of the US detention camp at Guantanamo Bay.
He is reported to have serious doubts about whether the indefinite detention of "enemy
combatants" is legal or fair.
In a speech in London, he said the camp had become a symbol of injustice and its existence was
"unacceptable".
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the US did not want to release people who might "end up on the battlefield" or
commit terrorist acts.
UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has called the camp in Cuba an "anomaly".
But in the strongest worded condemnation yet
from a British government minister, Lord Goldsmith said: "The existence of Guantanamo remains unacceptable.
The historic tradition of the
United States as a beacon of freedom, liberty and of justice deserves the removal of this symbol
Lord Goldsmith
Transcript of speech in
full
Call shows 'significant shift'
"It is time, in my view, that it should close. Not only would it, in my personal opinion, be right to close
Guantanamo as a matter of principle, I believe it would also help to remove what has become a symbol to many - right or wrong - of injustice.
"The
historic tradition of the United States as a beacon of freedom, liberty and of justice deserves the removal of this symbol."
Around 490 detainees are
in Guantanamo Bay, which opened in January 2002.
There has been international criticism of conditions at the US camp and the length of time
detainees have been held there without trial.
Rights groups have said the detainees, held on suspicion of involvement in terrorism, are mistreated
through cruel interrogation methods - a charge the US denies.
Fair trial
Lord Goldsmith told the Royal United Services Institute there was a
case for limiting some rights for collective security.
Fundamental rights must be protected if we are to preserve our democracies but given the
current threat to our national security we have to be flexible
Lord Goldsmith
But he said the right to a fair trial should never be
compromised.
Nine British nationals at Guantanamo were returned to the UK in 2004 and 2005 after government intervention.
Lord Goldsmith
said the UK was "unable to accept that the US military tribunals proposed for those detained at Guantanamo Bay offered sufficient guarantees of a fair trial
in accordance with international standards".
He went on to defend the European Convention on Human Rights and the UK's Human Rights
Act.
"Fundamental rights must be protected if we are to preserve our democracies but given the current threat to our national security we have to be
flexible about how we achieve this," he said.
'Right balance'
Despite recent legal challenges to control orders, Lord Goldsmith contended that
the protection of the public from the risk of terrorism "by means of civil orders and the use of secret intelligence to make out the case is
untouched".
And he said deportation agreements with countries with a record of human rights abuses meant to guarantee a returnee's safety were a
way of achieving the "right balance between collective security and fundamental liberties".
Lord Goldsmith also defended the creation of new
criminal offences in the Terrorism Act 2006 to counter "some features of al-Qaeda type terrorism which distinguish it from other forms of
crime".
"Where we depart from traditional ways of guaranteeing civil liberties we should be clear that our actions are proportionate to the threat and
needed to meet it," he said.
The fact of the matter is that the people there are dangerous people
Sean McCormack
US State Department
spokesman
Echoing the words of US President George W Bush - who in a TV interview on Sunday said he would like to "end" the detention centre -
spokesman Mr McCormack said the US would "like nothing better than at some point in the future to close down Guantanamo".
"Nobody wants to be
a jailer for the world," he added, saying "many detainees" had moved back to their countries of origin.
"But the fact of the matter is that the people
there are dangerous people.
"One thing we don't want to do is release people now who might at some point in the future end up on the battlefield
facing our troops or somebody else's troops, or committing acts of terrorism against civilians." The Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, has called for the
closure of the US detention camp at Guantanamo Bay.
He is reported to have serious doubts about whether the indefinite detention of "enemy
combatants" is legal or fair.
In a speech in London, he said the camp had become a symbol of injustice and its existence was
"unacceptable".
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the US did not want to release people who might "end up on the battlefield" or
commit terrorist acts.
UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has called the camp in Cuba an "anomaly".
But in the strongest worded condemnation yet
from a British government minister, Lord Goldsmith said: "The existence of Guantanamo remains unacceptable.
The historic tradition of the
United States as a beacon of freedom, liberty and of justice deserves the removal of this symbol
Lord Goldsmith
Transcript of speech in
full
Call shows 'significant shift'
"It is time, in my view, that it should close. Not only would it, in my personal opinion, be right to close
Guantanamo as a matter of principle, I believe it would also help to remove what has become a symbol to many - right or wrong - of injustice.
"The
historic tradition of the United States as a beacon of freedom, liberty and of justice deserves the removal of this symbol."
Around 490 detainees are
in Guantanamo Bay, which opened in January 2002.
There has been international criticism of conditions at the US camp and the length of time
detainees have been held there without trial.
Rights groups have said the detainees, held on suspicion of involvement in terrorism, are mistreated
through cruel interrogation methods - a charge the US denies.
Fair trial
Lord Goldsmith told the Royal United Services Institute there was a
case for limiting some rights for collective security.
Fundamental rights must be protected if we are to preserve our democracies but given the
current threat to our national security we have to be flexible
Lord Goldsmith
But he said the right to a fair trial should never be
compromised.
Nine British nationals at Guantanamo were returned to the UK in 2004 and 2005 after government intervention.
Lord Goldsmith
said the UK was "unable to accept that the US military tribunals proposed for those detained at Guantanamo Bay offered sufficient guarantees of a fair trial
in accordance with international standards".
He went on to defend the European Convention on Human Rights and the UK's Human Rights
Act.
"Fundamental rights must be protected if we are to preserve our democracies but given the current threat to our national security we have to be
flexible about how we achieve this," he said.
'Right balance'
Despite recent legal challenges to control orders, Lord Goldsmith contended that
the protection of the public from the risk of terrorism "by means of civil orders and the use of secret intelligence to make out the case is
untouched".
And he said deportation agreements with countries with a record of human rights abuses meant to guarantee a returnee's safety were a
way of achieving the "right balance between collective security and fundamental liberties".
Lord Goldsmith also defended the creation of new
criminal offences in the Terrorism Act 2006 to counter "some features of al-Qaeda type terrorism which distinguish it from other forms of
crime".
"Where we depart from traditional ways of guaranteeing civil liberties we should be clear that our actions are proportionate to the threat and
needed to meet it," he said.
The fact of the matter is that the people there are dangerous people
Sean McCormack
US State Department
spokesman
Echoing the words of US President George W Bush - who in a TV interview on Sunday said he would like to "end" the detention centre -
spokesman Mr McCormack said the US would "like nothing better than at some point in the future to close down Guantanamo".
"Nobody wants to be
a jailer for the world," he added, saying "many detainees" had moved back to their countries of origin.
"But the fact of the matter is that the people
there are dangerous people.
"One thing we don't want to do is release people now who might at some point in the future end up on the battlefield
facing our troops or somebody else's troops, or committing acts of terrorism against civilians."
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So what
do you think about my questions, Happy? Is government sponsored torture EVER acceptable?
Papa
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Papa Wrote:government sponsored torture If it is sponsored by the goverment, I say NO. But, then, the goverment sponsers about
everything... :\
FW
~ FFW
well
im not really sure i need to here more about it i cant tell at this point when i do i will say so
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FirefoxWiz Wrote:Papa Wrote:government sponsored torture I'll take back what I said.
No, this is never acceptable. At least I don't
think so...
FW
Why did you change your mind, FW?
Ya
you changed you mind pretty quick there oh yes if you go to ltest heasdlines you can see whats happenging
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