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+---- Thread: One of the reasons I believe there is a God (/showthread.php?tid=19884)
One of the reasons I believe there is a God - Annuit Coeptis - 06-23-2011
This is a line from a book that I read: For the scientists who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself ove the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.
The astronomical evidence for God must be strong when atheistic physicists admit that "the universe exploded out of nothingness by chance." I believe in the big bang, I don't believe it was an act of random chance.
There is a thing called the anthropic principle. It has to do with the constants of the earth that allow humans to survive here. There are about 123 in all. Things like the strength of gravity on earth or the percentage of oxygen in the air or the placement of the planets or the speed at which the earth rotates, stuff like that. Well an astrophysicist named Hugh Ross calculated the probability that all these constants would be given to one planet out of the 10^22 planets in the universe since the big bang. The probability of one planet being given these attributes is one in 10^138. That is an extremely large number. For comparison there are only 10^70 atoms in the entire universe. Atoms. My point in all this is that there is vintually zero chance that we are here simply because of luck.
I have no faith there is a God because faith is required to believe in something that there is no evidence for. I have been thinking a lot about the existence of a God. I have been reading this. After a few chapters I have come to realize the obviousness of the truth. Read the book, it is really good. Even if you don't believe in God you should read it to avoid being ignorant. The way the data is presented in the book is simple and straight forward.
Please don't criticize me until you have read the book. I am happy to talk about what I believe and I don't think less of anyone else for what they believe; even if they are wrong.
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - Bleeding.From.The.Heart.96 - 06-23-2011
Hey, I read your post, never did read the book, but I like your reasoning and logic. Unlike some more radical religious, you take the "faith" question out of it. Now as for what I believe, I can't say whether or not I believe in God because God, life, existence, they're all a paradox.
If there is a God, how did he emerge out of nothingness? If God didn't create the universe, and how things work, how could it have just come out of nowhere and suddenly there was existence? How could every one of these specific requirements for living ended up on one planet?
Well I don't like to question where existence came to be and how, but I question many beliefs about "gods" because I simply can't bring myself to believe in some overpowering being living over us. No being can possess so much power and if it turned out there was one, he/she is cruel and imperfect. Why would they torture their creations with things like natural disaster, extinction, unstable minds, ect.
These things aside, it just seems that if there was a god, we wouldn't really be living in such a horrible place. (yes I know and understand Adam and Eve, the whole book of Genesis, and basically the whole Old Testament, no problem there)
I ask anyone who disagrees to by all means disagree, but in a respectful manner please. Thanks for your time
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - Annuit Coeptis - 06-24-2011
(06-23-2011, 11:21 PM)Bleeding.From.The.Heart.96 Wrote: Hey, I read your post, never did read the book, but I like your reasoning and logic. Unlike some more radical religious, you take the "faith" question out of it. Now as for what I believe, I can't say whether or not I believe in God because God, life, existence, they're all a paradox.
If there is a God, how did he emerge out of nothingness? If God didn't create the universe, and how things work, how could it have just come out of nowhere and suddenly there was existence? How could every one of these specific requirements for living ended up on one planet?
Well I don't like to question where existence came to be and how, but I question many beliefs about "gods" because I simply can't bring myself to believe in some overpowering being living over us. No being can possess so much power and if it turned out there was one, he/she is cruel and imperfect. Why would they torture their creations with things like natural disaster, extinction, unstable minds, ect.
These things aside, it just seems that if there was a god, we wouldn't really be living in such a horrible place. (yes I know and understand Adam and Eve, the whole book of Genesis, and basically the whole Old Testament, no problem there)
I ask anyone who disagrees to by all means disagree, but in a respectful manner please. Thanks for your time
For God to possess a beginning he has to be subject to time. God created time and thus he 'lives' outside of the boundaries of time. Time does not apply to God because God is a timeless being. As for the creation of the universe, I agree. It is very hard to believe that the this entire universe just sprung into being out of nothing. God is the creator, the universe is designed. God's fingerprints are all over it. All the specific requirements were applied to this planet because that is how it was drawn out in the blueprints.
As for the 'allowance' of evil how do you know what evil is unless you know what good is? And how do you know what good is unless there is an objective standard of good beyond yourself? If god were to do away with all the evil in the world and make everything good then he would also be eliminating free will. A world that is full of goodness and righteousness but lacks free will is more of a dystopia than a world that is full of crime and hatred but possesses free will.
(Also if God were to eliminate evil from the entire earth now we would all be in trouble because we have all done wrong; in that sense I am glad that God allows evil or I would not be here.)
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - 0xE9 - 06-24-2011
You seem far to logical to believe a guy who lives "outside time" created the universe. But oh well, never mind.
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - AceInfinity - 06-24-2011
(06-23-2011, 09:14 PM)Annuit Coeptis Wrote: This is a line from a book that I read: For the scientists who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself ove the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.
The astronomical evidence for God must be strong when atheistic physicists admit that "the universe exploded out of nothingness by chance." I believe in the big bang, I don't believe it was an act of random chance.
There is a thing called the anthropic principle. It has to do with the constants of the earth that allow humans to survive here. There are about 123 in all. Things like the strength of gravity on earth or the percentage of oxygen in the air or the placement of the planets or the speed at which the earth rotates, stuff like that. Well an astrophysicist named Hugh Ross calculated the probability that all these constants would be given to one planet out of the 10^22 planets in the universe since the big bang. The probability of one planet being given these attributes is one in 10^138. That is an extremely large number. For comparison there are only 10^70 atoms in the entire universe. Atoms. My point in all this is that there is vintually zero chance that we are here simply because of luck.
I have no faith there is a God because faith is required to believe in something that there is no evidence for. I have been thinking a lot about the existence of a God. I have been reading this. After a few chapters I have come to realize the obviousness of the truth. Read the book, it is really good. Even if you don't believe in God you should read it to avoid being ignorant. The way the data is presented in the book is simple and straight forward.
Please don't criticize me until you have read the book. I am happy to talk about what I believe and I don't think less of anyone else for what they believe; even if they are wrong.
lol "Nothingness" is a relative term used by physicists, it doesn't actually mean nothing. Do you know how many particles of matter and antimatter are in movement throughout the universe on a nonstop basis? Even if the chances are small, it can happen. How do you think people win lotteries, other than conning?
I can guarantee that 10^22 planets in the Universe is highly incorrect as we haven't even sent radiowaves out to it's farthest reaches of the universe yet. Meaning that 10^138 probablility is also an inaccurate number, as well as 10^70 atoms. I wouldn't know how you'd go off to believe all of that. The amount of knowledge we have on the universe is smaller than a grain of sand in the ocean. We have barely even got a grasp on Quantum physics yet and the double slit experiment.
By this:
Quote:I have no faith there is a God because faith is required to believe in something that there is no evidence for
Give me any kind of proof that has actually proved that a God does exist. If so, what would be the point of science? What this explains isn't bulletproof evidence that it does exist. That's like believing there's a God because you've read the bible that tells you he exists...
Writing is persuasive, but science is real evidence. Have you taken the time to think of how many other Gods people have tried to create for their own cultures? Lots of their traditions later on were proved false through science, like the Indians, when they thought that the steam rising from someones dead body was their soul when in reality it was caused by a heat difference in the dead of winter. How much of this other nonsense could you imagine is just made up to give a more realistic faith to believers? Without faith or something to believe in, psychologically our society would be more corrupt. People like the sense of having something to live by. If every religion has their own God? Who's telling the truth then? Or do we have multiple Gods that created the world in 10 different ways all at the same time?
There's already contradictions in the bible that people have found. Sounds like something only a good lie would be able to create.
Quote:For God to possess a beginning he has to be subject to time. God created time and thus he 'lives' outside of the boundaries of time. Time does not apply to God because God is a timeless being
lol you must have been religious from the start. Not that i'm against it, but now you're a God philosopher? lol tell us more about how you've gotten to know him so well. I'm not closed minded, but this just sounds ridiculous... No one created time, if he existed in a world without time, he wouldn't have been able to "create" it. It's virtually impossible based on the theory of relativity, and any other physics, logistics or principles of time itself.
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - Annuit Coeptis - 06-24-2011
(06-24-2011, 01:04 AM)0xE9 Wrote: You seem far to logical to believe a guy who lives "outside time" created the universe. But oh well, never mind.
Is it really so hard to believe? Einstein said that space and time were intertwined, they both came into being at the same time. If God is the creator of space then time comes with the package. Time started once space was formed. And if space already existed then what the hell did God create? Ha
I suppose is is a little difficult to imagine a 'place' with no time and no space. It is equated with trying to explain to an ant how a television works. Logic is all I have because I don't have a lot of faith.
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - 0xE9 - 06-24-2011
(06-24-2011, 01:29 AM)Annuit Coeptis Wrote: Is it really so hard to believe? Einstein said that space and time were intertwined, they both came into being at the same time. If God is the creator of space then time comes with the package. Time started once space was formed. And if space already existed then what the hell did God create? HaWell going on the fact that god is some sort of object, He would be space thus time would exist therefore he created nothing.
I suppose is is a little difficult to imagine a 'place' with no time and no space. It is equated with trying to explain to an ant how a television works. Logic is all I have because I don't have a lot of faith.
But really I will only ever believe in something I cannot hear/see/touch/feel/smell when my mind starts degrading from excessive drug use and I begin to develope some sort of mental condition.
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - AceInfinity - 06-24-2011
I think it's still very silly.
Quote:If God is the creator of space then time comes with the package
And where's the proof in that? (In which he even created space to begin with. None)
People don't even know who God is. And if his son was Jesus, lol then I think that's quite a few years after the universe was created even if he had him while he was 90 years old... Not saying that that's the god you think this is, but your referencing to 'that' god with "God" in your post.
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - 0xE9 - 06-24-2011
(06-24-2011, 01:41 AM)Ace Wrote: I think it's still very silly.Now you just appear to be rambling on about some bible related crap.
And where's the proof in that? (In which he even created space to begin with. None)
People don't even know who God is. And if his son was Jesus, lol then I think that's quite a few years after the universe was created even if he had him while he was 90 years old... Not saying that that's the god you think this is, but your referencing to 'that' god with "God" in your post.
I came in this thread to see if some intelligent people could try and convince me god existed and in what form. I did not come here for people like you to preach me their religion that Jesus is the son of god. I have to read enough of people trying to preach their religion on HF, I don't want to see it here too.
Try and convince me, you will not relate to any fictional books such as the bible, koran etc etc. Just using factual evidence try and convince me there is a god
RE: One of the reasons I believe there is a God - AceInfinity - 06-24-2011
(06-24-2011, 01:55 AM)0xE9 Wrote: Now you just appear to be rambling on about some bible related crap.
I came in this thread to see if some intelligent people could try and convince me god existed and in what form. I did not come here for people like you to preach me their religion that Jesus is the son of god. I have to read enough of people trying to preach their religion on HF, I don't want to see it here too.
Try and convince me, you will not relate to any fictional books such as the bible, koran etc etc. Just using factual evidence try and convince me there is a god
Keep making assumptions of my posts before reading them carefully. If you read the first one you'd see that I was not with religion myself. I'm stating my opinion about it. Have you read any of my first post??
None of my posts supported the idea that there was a god, and none of my comments were directed at you. They were all to the original poster.